Journals of the Senate
52 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2003, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 59
Wednesday, May 28, 2003
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Di Nino, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, *Cordy, *Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, *Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Merchant, Milne, Moore, Morin, Murray, *Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robertson, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, *Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., tabled the following:
The May 2003 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons, pursuant to the Auditor General Act, S.C. 1995, c. 43, s. 3.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-444.
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Keon for the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, tabled its Third Report (study of the report entitled: Environmental Scan: Access to Justice in Both Official Languages). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-445S.
The Honourable Senator Maheu, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights tabled its Fourth Report entitled: Enhancing Canada's Role in the OAS: Canadian Adherence to the American Convention on Human Rights.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-446S.
The Honourable Senator Maheu moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the third reading of Bill C-15, An Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act, as amended,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Di Nino, seconded by the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., that the Bill, as amended, be not now read a third time but that it be further amended in clause 3, on page 2, by adding after line 18, the following:
"(3) Section 4 of the Act is amended by adding the following after subsection (2):
(2.1) The Governor in Council shall make regulations respecting the meaning of the word "information'' and specifying any circumstances under which a communication shall be considered not to be restricted to a request for information, for the purposes of paragraph (2)(c).
(2.2) Before the Governor in Council makes regulations under subsection (2.1), the proposed regulations shall be laid before each House of Parliament and shall be referred to the committee of each House that may be designated or established for that purpose.
(2.3) The Governor in Council may make regulations under subsection (2.1) only if
(a) neither House has concurred in any report from a committee respecting the proposed regulations within thirty sitting days following the day on which the proposed regulations were laid before the House, in which case the regulations may only be made in the form laid;
(b) both Houses have concurred in a report from a committee approving the proposed regulations, in which case the regulations may only be made in the form concurred in; or
(c) either House has concurred in a report from a committee approving an amended version of the regulations and the other House has concurred in that amended version, in which case the regulations may only be made in the form concurred in.
(2.4) For the purpose of subsection (2.3), "sitting day'' means, in respect of either House of Parliament, a day on which the House sits.''.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on division.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the third reading of Bill C-15, An Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act, as amended,
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Di Nino, that the Bill, as amended, be not now read a third time but that it be further amended in clause 8, on page 10, by adding after line 32 the following:
"(1.1) The Ethics Counsellor shall include in the Code provisions to prohibit a consultant lobbyist from engaging in lobbying activities while the lobbyist, or the lobbyist's firm, holds any office, commission or employment in the service of the Government of Canada or has any contract for the provision of goods or services with that Government or any of its departments or officers.
(1.2) For the purpose of subsection (1.1), "lobbyist's firm'' means a person, partnership, association or firm by whom or by which the consultant lobbyist is employed, or with whom or with which the consultant lobbyist is professionally associated, for the purpose of engaging in the business of consultant lobbying.''.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on division.
The question then being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the third reading of Bill C-15, as amended, it was adopted on division.
The Bill, as amended, was then read the third time and passed, on division.
Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, with an amendment, to which they desire their concurrence.
Third reading of Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals), as amended.
The Honourable Senator Jaffer moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaPierre, that the Bill, as amended, be read the third time.
A point of order was raised concerning the third reading of Bill C-10B.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
I thank all honourable senators for their interventions on this interesting point. It is obviously something to which honourable senators have given much thought and have had some difficulty with in terms of the series of events that bring us to this point at third-reading stage of Bill C-10B as amended.
Normally, I would want to give some thought to such a matter. However, as we all know, this has already been the subject of two rulings in this place and at least one ruling in the other place. I find myself fairly familiar with the matter, and my view will be the basis of the ruling that I give.
I remind honourable senators of the importance of this matter in terms of the stage of proceedings at which we are. We are dealing with a piece of legislation amending the Criminal Code. We have a very high duty and responsibility. If we were to interfere in any way with the processes by which laws become law, it would have enormous consequences.
I will address the matter of the bill not having received first or second reading, as brought out in the comments of Senator Carstairs and Senator Beaudoin, by pointing out that the bill had indeed received consideration at those stages in this place as Bill C-10. If we regard, as I do, the change of Bill C-10 into Bill C-10A or Bill C-10B as being in the nature of or analogous to an amendment, that is within the power of the Senate to do. We did that, and I do not believe that that matter is any impediment to dealing further with Bill C-10B at this time.
I will speak to all of the other matters, with the exception of the one raised by Senators Andreychuk and Kinsella, as also discussed by Senator Cools, which is the wording of the message. The other matters relate essentially to that which is the responsibility, province and privilege of the other place. I believe so strongly that it is not for us to decide for them whether they have followed correct procedures that I will not even comment on that point. I would note that some interesting questions have been raised with respect to the resuscitation of Bill C-15B and Bill C-10A and Bill C- 10B, and how they were dealt with in the other place.
However, that is their business and their rules. Those rules are different from our rules.
Honourable senators, I reviewed the messages to remind myself how the matter has proceeded through this place. I have confirmed that the matters are in order. That has been referred to in prior rulings.
The question of the wording of the message was raised by Senator Cools at an earlier time. It was addressed in a ruling that I gave on May 8. 2003. I refer all honourable senators to that ruling.
At this point, I find that there is no breach of our rules or conventions in the way in which we are proceeding. Accordingly, it is in order for to us resume debate on Bill C-10B at this time.
The Senate proceeded to the debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Jaffer, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaPierre, for the third reading of Bill C-10B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals), as amended.
Debate.
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Ordered, That all Senate Committees scheduled to sit today have power to sit while the Senate is sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
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The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Jaffer, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaPierre, for the third reading of Bill C-10B, as amended.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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Ordered, That all remaining Orders be postponed until the next sitting.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act, S.C. 1997, c. 40, sbs. 51(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-428.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2001-2002 to 2005-2006 and of the Capital and Operating Budgets for 2001- 2002 of the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-429.
Amended summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2001-2002 to 2005-2006 and of the Capital Budgets for 2001-2002 of the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-430.
Report of the Blue Water Bridge Authority, together with the Auditor General's report, for the year 2002, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-431.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 2003-2007 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 2003 of the Blue Water Bridge Authority, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-432.
Report of the Royal Canadian Mint for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2002, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-433.
Reports of the Pacific Pilotage Authority for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-434.
Statutes of Nunavut for February 2003, pursuant to the Nunavut Act, R.S.C. 1999, c. N-28, sbs. 28(1)..—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-435.
Statutes of the Yukon for March 2003, pursuant to the Yukon Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. Y-2, sbs. 22(1).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-436.
Reports of the Canadian Polar Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-437.
Reports of the Nunavut Water Board for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-438.
Reports of the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37- 439.
Report on the Marine Oil Spill Preparedness and Response Regime for the period of August 15, 2000 to August 15, 2002, pursuant to the Canada Shipping Act, S.C. 1993, c. 36, s. 6. —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-440.
Report of the Chief Electoral Officer for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-441.
Canadian Artists and Producers Professional Relations Tribunal for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-442.
Reports of the for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2003, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2)2/37.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-443.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 4:27 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications
The name of the Honourable Senator Oliver substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Forrestall (May 27).
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The name of the Honourable Senator Ringuette substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Milne (May 27).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Corbin substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Bryden (May 28).
Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament
The names of the Honourable Senators Cook and Fraser substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Cordy and Fairbairn (May 28).